Reinventing Development: an Interview with Achille Mbembe and Rémy Rioux

You’ve known each other for years but live but work in different worlds. What brings you together? 

Achille Mbembe: I’ve been following AFD’s activities since the early 1990s and the structural adjustment period. I met Rémy in South Africa, at the very beginning of his term as head of Agence Française de Développement. I took an interest at the time, because he was obviously trying to adapt AFD’s action, not only to the new course of events that was taking shape at that time, but also to the changes that he was already anticipating. It was during preparation for the New Africa-France Summit in Montpellier that our discussions became more in-depth. Coming from the academic world, I felt the need to work with someone who was involved in both thinking and doing, with the aim of effectively transforming not only the relationship between France and Africa, but also a world that itself needs to be redefined. 

Rémy Rioux: Achille and I felt a kinship between us. I come from a family of historians, and I studied history. Achille is also a historian. We were on parallel paths, probably for a long time, but we hadn’t crossed paths yet. He was seeking to put his ideas into action. I’m the opposite: I run an organization characterized by action, and whose purpose is to transform reality in order to project itself into the future, to build development trajectories. At the time, I was looking for a way back to ideas, to bring back meaning to what we do, a task that many colleagues had asked of me when I started in my position in 2016. 

What inspired you to write Pour un monde en commun together? 

R.R.: Something novel happened on October 8 in Montpellier. In Ouagadougou, in Montpellier and recently during the EU-AU Summit, President Macron created a new space for renewing and redefining our relations with Africa. In occupying this space, we thought it had to be less with repentance and forgiveness and more with truth and action. There were many reactions to the exchange. Some were excessive, but even that is interesting. This is the space that we begin to explore with this book. We must also acknowledge the philosopher and journalist Séverine Kodjo-Grandvaux, because the book is the result of a three-way dialogue of which she was very much a part.

Pour un monde en commun – Regards croisés entre l'Afrique et l'Europe, by Achille Mbembe and Rémy Rioux, with Séverine Kodjo-Grandvaux (in French)

How can we promote a common destiny, as your book title suggests, with the way things are going now?

A.M.: I start from a basic premise: we have a history, a past that can’t be erased. But we can write our relationships differently, through this space of possibilities that President Emmanuel Macron has created. I believe we have this capacity to regain strength to chart a different course together. To give it substance in the present and in real terms, we obviously have to invest in thinking and in action on an equal basis.

R.R.: There’s a thirst for truth and for recognition, and the response is underway. The best example is what has been accomplished in the last four years with Rwanda, which has involved history work: the Duclert Commission, thanks to which we’ve had a moment of truth. This was followed by President Macron’s visit, which was a moment of acknowledgment and respect. At the same time, action is now needed. That’s why I am back in Kigali this week, after my visit in June 2019, the first by an AFD CEO since 1992. 

But that is not enough. The crucial question is now “What do we want and what can we build together?”. After that, it will be possible to again imagine the future, together. This is what I’ve proposed calling “reconciliation.” And it’s important to understand that this is not only a French issue, but also and above all a European one. 

The word “development” is widely discussed during your exchanges and covers a concept that is controversial and put into question today. What are your thoughts? 

R.R.: President Macron has urged us to think about words. We’ve done a great deal of that at AFD in recent months. I think everyone is now realizing that we need to go beyond the word “development” as such, or to reinvent it, no matter how difficult that may seem to us. This is firstly because we no longer know what kind of development we’re talking about, or for whom. Ours, in France? Or the one our partners are responsible for? Secondly, the word “development” is associated with a certain development model. But from as early as 1992 we felt the need to add “sustainable” to it. In reality, we have to imagine our ecosystem in a more holistic way, as the sociologist and philosopher of science Bruno Latour encourages us to do. We must avoid looking at resources as just material for an extractive and productive process that destroys our planet. 

A.M.: It’s not just a question of words here, because behind the words are realities. There are practices, methods, and power. Transformative capabilities are at stake. The term “development” has been re-examined, not necessarily to abolish it, but to transcend it and to open it up. I’m talking about realization that the life of the human species is inseparable from other forms of life. A realization of the interwoven means of existence. I believe that it’s along these lines that development questions are being reformulated. And I find it rewarding to go in that direction.

You mention “common causes” in your book. Is reconciling economic prosperity and the world of living beings one of these great common causes?

A.M.: It’s the great common cause of today and of tomorrow, too. Will we be able to build forms of relationships between all living things? Forms of relationships by which we can inhabit the earth in a different way, forms that do not lead to the end of life? I believe that this is the great political, esthetic, artistic, philosophical and moral question of this century. But it’s not an issue that can be addressed regionally or even nationally: it’s a global issue. 

R.R.: That’s certainly true, but it applies to Africa with particular breadth, depth, and urgency. If there’s one place where the holistic aspect of the Sustainable Development Goals is obvious, it’s in Africa, because everything needs to be done at the same time.

A.M.: Absolutely. Africa is truly the privileged laboratory in this respect, because everything there is a priority, everything needs to be done, and everything is urgent. Everything is linked: finance is linked to democracy, which is linked to infrastructure, and all these are tied to basic needs. 

In the end, what do we need to achieve this?

R.R.: In the book, we try to sketch the outlines of a diplomacy of living beings, because our intuition, and our fear, is that in the medium or long term the climate situation will take precedence over geopolitical conflicts, and its scale and threat are the same for all powers. 

A.M.: Yes, and development policy is the future for us all, and not only for the so-called underdeveloped countries. Development, when understood correctly, is the key to inventing an international or inter-nation system that makes the earth inhabitable for all.

R.R.: With the war in Ukraine, we obviously might be tempted to think that all this makes no sense, given the emergency. This would be a mistake. War in fact shows that there is no other option than cooperation, in the long term. Faced with global issues, withdrawal is suicidal by nature. We have chosen to be on the side of life. This isn’t a dream: this capacity for action is being formed, and we see it very strongly through our work at AFD. Is it going fast enough? Is it up to par? The answer is obviously no. This is why we’re using this book to launch a proposal: what if we went further and faster, together?

In your report, Achille Mbembe, and in the book, you mention the House of African Worlds (Maison des mondes africains) project. What is this project about? 

A.M.: I have long held a bias for the common—for the in-common. This house would be the place where it can crystallize in the form of a body to make all this visible. There is already an ecosystem of interesting [artistic and cultural] institutions in Paris, not to mention Remy’s dream of a future museum dedicated to development. The House of African Worlds will fall within this context.

Symbolically speaking, it would act as a sort of granary of the future, if we think of those invaluable storehouses where seeds are kept. More concretely, it will be a great site of cultural creation of African origin, where we celebrate the contribution of the African spirit to the formation of the French concept of universality. Creation in all its forms will have a role there, to testify to its strength: from business to literature, from literature to music, fashion or astronomy. It will be a place of life, which blossoms into a shared future.

Read an excerpt from Pour un monde en commun (in French)